This will be a quickie because there’s not really much to talk about. I keep looking around trying to find more information on thrust vectoring and how it really affects performance/maneuverability, etc. Here’s what I’ve found as well as what I think about it:
While we know that TV is a very interesting concept, what does it actually do? According to a lot of people, it makes seemingly impossible maneuvers possible and makes any fighter jet without it obsolete. Some speculate it is there for supersonic cruise purposes as well, which makes sense for reasons found here in a press conference with Col. Everest Riccioni. I’ve also read that it gives the advantage of maneuvering without moving the control surfaces, thereby avoiding the drag induced by doing so.
But one thing I’ve noticed that I wanted to comment on that nobody else has is the fact that today’s aircraft that use TV to gain high AOA maneuvering capabilities are using it as a crutch. Take a look at all those that have it, the F-22, Su-35, etc. All of them are flying dump trucks!!! The fact of the matter is that all of them are obscenely heavy and would be the most sluggish fighters if not for the magically redeeming qualities of vectored thrust. Even with it, it’s easy to see that fighter jets decades older are still much more agile. Have a look at the quickness that each plane does the Cobra maneuver in these two videos. Then try to guess which one has/needs TV to do it.
To elaborate on why slow speed maneuvering is pointless in my mind I leave you with a couple observations. First, all of it has to be done in full afterburner unless the plane is diving because of the weight of the plane and the amount of thrust needed to keep it up in the air. This does two things: put out a huge heat signature, and waste all your gas. So if enough of it is done, you’re either taking a heater up the tailpipe or running home because you need to refuel. Second, what many people still don’t understand is that it’s not how fast you can turn that wins dogfights, it’s the speed at which you can change the situation so that the enemy can’t cope with what you’re doing. It’s the rate of fast transients, how fast you can dump and regain energy, and from what I see, TV can only help you dump it. Post stall, you either have to dive or ride your afterburners to get your energy back which takes a painfully long time from what I’ve seen, giving a more agile opponent plenty of time to pop a heater right up in there. Anyways, enough of my ranting, I leave you with an afterthought:
Does anyone know what John Boyd meant by “flat-plating the bird”? I’m leaning towards the Cobra maneuver, but I’m not sure. I’ve heard that F-105’s could kind of pull a variant of it, if anyone knows send me a line.
That is, if anyone reads this.
I flew 100 missions in NVN with the F-105(thud).
No it could not do the Cobra, to big and heavy.
Flat plate as it was called was a last ditch maneuver to try and save your butt.In particular a Mig on your 6. Timimg is fairly important. Just yank the stick back in your lap to kill a lot of airspeed in a hurry, the Mig shoot right on by. You cut and get the hell out of Dodge.
frank
Frank, thanks for the input! I also found this (thanks Dad):
“Boyd liked the F-100 and became one of the best – or even the best – USAF Super Sabre pilot. Boyd’s specialty was a maneuver called “flat-plating the bird” where you stop the aircraft in the air by pulling the stick all the way back with both hands and hold it there. Once the airspeed is down you stomp full rudder and perform a corkscrew maneuver which forces the opponent in front of you and you can shoot him with your gun camera. Boyd’s message to young F-100 pilots was the essence of using the rudder at high angle of attack. Boyd’s maneuver lead to the birth of the “40-second Boyd” legend. Boyd had a 40 dollar standing bet that he could get to the tail of any opponent within 40 seconds from a starting position where the opponent started from Boyd’s tail. Boyd never lost his bet while he was flying fighters at Nellis.”
Interesting stuff.
I’ve got two bios on John Boyd, one of my heroes.
I like the quote posted above about the corkscrew
finish: Boyd wasn’t just bugging out, he was going
to kill you. According to the book he told F-105
pilots about the maneuver and they thought he was
crazay, later at least one thanked him and said it
saved his life. Good videos on the web of the SAAB
Draken doing the first half of Boyd’s tactic… I’d
love to see a vid of the entire thing including the
results of the pedal-stomp…